370 – How Judges Decide Placements: Conformation and Obedience
How Judges Decide Placements: Conformation and Obedience
Part two of our panel discussion at the Regina Kennel and Obedience Club’s Prairie Christmas Dog Show with an international coterie of judges focuses on: the details of breed type and presentation, exercising patience, judging uncropped and undocked dogs, legislation and growing our sport.
From Sue-Ellyn Rempel on making a final placement:
“I guess for me general outline for starters and then movement is very breed specific for me. So I kind of go by that…. they have to scream German Shepherd … a lot of times we get … a class of 5 and they’re all generic … they get from point A to point B really well they stack and their moderately angulated like the breed should be but they’re not smooth, they don’t flow in the correct way…. like the make and shape difference in the shape from a Great Dane to a whippet… whippets you want the beautiful soft gentle curves… that’s gotta hit me right away… when I look at them, that they are the right shape and then when they take the steps, that puts the picture together for me.”
From Frances Smith on what she sees in the ring:
“I find it very important to reward the breed specific, unique characteristics because (there are) a lot of generic dogs, too many generic dogs, too many dogs that finished championships that really… shouldn’t be … because supposedly a champion is a superior specimen of the breed. So it’s up to us to keep the quality and to reward those breed specific points because without them we lose those identifying points of each breed. I want to add another thing that’s very important, temperament, which is also one of the 6 points in type, … because the temperament has to belong to the breed …without the correct temperament I don’t care if a dog is extremely showy, he’s gotta have the breed’s temperament. I don’t want just a fancy dancer in the ring … I don’t want to see a dog jumping and doing things that aren’t typical of his breed.”
From Diana McKenzie on changes she’s seen in her time in the sport:
“There’s been a ton of changes over the years in obedience … even training methods OK these days are so different from what they were 20-30 years ago. … unfortunately a lot of people go into obedience and they think it’s easy. OK rally is easy, yes. Obedience is not easy. It is not a given and it’s something that you as a handler have to work with your dog to attain a nice working relationship with and train the behaviors. Rally is easy to me, I shouldn’t say it’s easy to everyone, but it’s a wonderful venue to train with your dog and teach your dog in a positive way how to move its rear end and be aware of its rear end movement which a lot of people don’t do. (That’s) just one small thing that you can think of to work with them. Fronts, finishes, drops, all of that are in rally obedience as well as the heeling, so when you see a team in rally obedience and they are true team it’s wonderful. … in obedience … over the years training methods are changing. Corrections, harsh corrections, are becoming less and less used (people are) more into the purely positive methods. That’s wonderful, if you know how to do it properly. A lot of people don’t, therefore they get a brat in a dog that goes in (and says) “I don’t have to ’cause there are no consequences…”
369 – Judges Share View from the Center of the Ring
Judges Share View from the Center of the Ring
The Prairie Christmas Dog Show judging panel on “pajama day”…
These judges share their 411 stories and their views from the center of the ring. This is part one of two from our panel discussion at the Prairie Christmas Dog Show in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Our panelists share common paths to involvement with purebred dogs. Frances Smith talks about family connections and, bonus, the story of transporting Yorkshire Terriers from England to Argentina by ship. Obedience competition that started with a mixed breed dog brought obedience judge Diana McKenzie to purebred dogs. Sue-Ellyn Rempel talks about coming to dogs from horses.
You only get one chance to make a first impression and these panelists agree it really is a critical piece to judging.
“I want to see type, quality, balance, and to know a dog is a dog, a bitch is a bitch,” Smith said. Rempel agreed, noting outline, angles and breed type are her first look.
McKenzie added that she wants to see that each handler-dog team to be a really a *team.*
Making the picture becomes a critical piece of success, as each judge has a picture in their mind of a “perfect” one of each breed.
Essentials of type
“Many people don’t exactly know what type is,” Smith observed. “Type is the essence of a breed. It’s what makes each breed unique and different from another.” Smith’s clear and concise definition of the six factors of type is magical.
The six elements that define each breed: head, color, size/measurement, temperament, coat, movement.
“Movement is breed specific. Temperament is type,” Smith said.
Applying breed type to obedience performances, McKenzie offered a fascinating perspective.
“With different breeds in obedience competition, you still have breed type,” McKenzie said. “Different dogs sit differently and at different speeds, for example. How straight they are affects score. Just because you’re fast doesn’t mean you’re going to be good. Sometimes slower workers are more precise workers.”
368 – Beauceron: Rustic Farm Dog and Living Fence
Beauceron: Rustic Farm Dog and Living Fence
Our Love the Breeds panel discusses Beauceron, the ancient French farm dog described as a “living fence” in their native country.
Beauceron may be shown with cropped or uncropped ears. This is a litter with dam at center bred by Elaine Giannelli.
According to breeder Elaine Giannelli, in France, the Shepherd would go out to the field with his sheep and the Beauceron would go out like a fence and keep the sheep where they were supposed to be while they grazed …
“The Beauceron was a farm dog so he did a lot of things besides just move the sheep… he would take the sheep out during the day to graze, move them to another graze and then bring them back home and then protect the farm in the evening,” said third-generation French breeder Eric Vavassori.
Beauceron were developed more than 600 years ago to serve as rustic farm dogs and a “living fence” to move stock to new pastures and keep them where they belonged.
Moving sheep and cattle required a substantial, hardy dog, the panelists noted. The Beauceron stands up to 27 ½” tall and is considered a stronger, lower key type of dog than the German Shepherd Dog or Malinois.
“They definitely have an activity level,” Beauceron owner Sidney Wilcox said, “but they’re not manic … they’re not a Border Collie, they’re not constantly go go go go go go go go go …. they don’t have the focus, the intenseness of a Border Collie or
Panelist Sidney Wilcox and her harlequin Beauceron.
Malinois, but they are high-energy with a sense of humor.”
New Beauceron fancier Sara Reid agrees. “Never laugh at a Beauceron! They’ll just keep doing whatever made you laugh.”
The Beauceron was accepted in AKC’s registry in 2007, but the history of the breed dates back centuries.
“They say that when the French settled in Louisiana that they brought a couple Harlequins with them,” Giannelli said, “and that’s where the Catahoula (Leopard Dog) got (the merle gene)… that was from way, way back when the French first came to Louisiana.”
Panelist Sara Reid with her Beauceron, Misha.
The breed has a strong personality, the panelists observed. It needs firm, fair and consistent training and above-average amounts of socializing, they noted.
“Temperament could be an issue,” Vavassori said. “Why? Because a long time ago, the Beauceron was a farm dog and he was on the farm only to protect the family and to manage the sheep. So, the dog was not socialized. The dogs must be socialized early, early by the Breeders and after by the owners, more than German Shepherd or Labrador…”
A healthy breed, the Beauceron is generally long-lived by large breed standards, with a strong worldwide population. Learn more here.
367 – Dog Breeding is Art AND Science with DNA Testing
Dog Breeding is Art AND Science with DNA Testing
Ryan Boyko, co-founder and CEO of Embark, shares specific information about what DNA Genetic Testing can and cannot tell us and how it has exploded since the mapping of the canine genome 15 years ago.
“We can test for almost 200 disorders that affect most breeds,” Boyko said. “We can come up with a genetic coefficient of inbreeding, which is exact to the individual dog versus a “pedigree” calculation. We can be predictive now, also, on inbreeding coefficient and traits.”
Art AND Science
“There’s always going to be an art to dog breeding,” Boyko noted. “That’s the magic. We’re never going to take that away. I’m never going to know as much about your individual breed as you do.
“The best breeders have been doing this for decades. And they’ve been producing healthy dogs that are champions. We are driving awareness of how the tools we offer can fit into a breeding program.”
Academia to Application
“I came out of an academic background,” Boyko said. “My brother helped design the original dog array. We use data to discover new things. Can use data from the array combined with phenotype data to discover new genes. Over the next five years I think we’ll be able to learn about more complex traits like cancer.”
Genetic testing helps scientists learn more about the underlying genes for complex disorders affected by multiple genes and environmental impacts, Boyko noted. Genomic risk scores are a tool in development to utilize this information.
“When traits are affected by lots of different genes, this tool allows breeders to learn the probability of this dam/sire to produce a specific disease or trait and compare to other combinations,” Boyko said. The Doberman Diversity Project episode discussed this in more depth.
Another exciting field of discovery for the future is epigenetics, which are the markers that can turn genes on and off. Learn more here and here.
366 – Winning the Messaging War with Better Marketing
Winning the Messaging War with Better Marketing
Dale Martenson of Touche Japanese Chin shares outstanding information about how to win the messaging war with better marketing and advertising of our purebred dogs.
I’ve included below some outtakes and quotes from a spectacular conversation.
For most of these people getting a puppy, it is a want, not a need. They aren’t going to do anything with it but love and cherish it. They don’t need to spend thousands of dollars on this dog, but our job is to share why our dogs are so awesome to live with and how they are going to enrich families and lives.
Reach people where they are
The foundation lies with the fact that what we want to avoid is impulsive decisions. Buying a dog, choosing a breed, getting a tattoo, none of these things should be done impaired or impulsively. They are long term commitments. Share the information about our breed so we get informed consumers who know this is the right fit for them, then this is a huge step to finding right homes, ultimate goal. Financing hobby and doing the things you want to do with and for your dogs.
Should be a self-funding hobby
We are bringing something to people’s families and lives. I love getting pictures of dogs in weddings and graduations. First thing we have to do is know the breed. Today’s knowledgeable, non-impulse buying consumer is looking for a breed authority.
We’ve had people mail us a kid’s Tshirt, put it on the puppy, mail it back, to see if it works. Know your customer, know your breed. Be knowledgeable. Make it so this is the right choice for them.
Join the 21st Century
Do you have a website? Do you use social media? You can have the best dogs in the whole world, but if nobody knows about them, what use is it?
Replying to emails with price question. We as consumers ask how much something costs. I prefer if I see the price in advance. Ultimately, it’s a transaction. Somebody is paying for something, that is a consumer transaction.
We need to be able to be polite and give a good message back. These folks may not know dog protocol 101. They’re buying a dog to lie on a couch. They’re doing us a favor. Give a little costumer service.
Always give breed information, including that health testing is important, early stimulation and socialization is important.
Just be nice!
Don’t be that person with an attitude of “if you have to ask you can’t afford it.”
Information should be given freely. It costs nothing to be polite. We are ambassadors for purebred dogs and the fancy, if we want it to continue. We have to keep our numbers under control. You will build a customer base that follow your dogs. They become a bit of a family.
Waiting lists are a thing of the past. A good online presence is a really important thing. I highly recommend having a website. This allows you to share great information about your breed, good and bad.
Work on your website, keep it current. When contract and health guarantee are on the website, you can use as a teaching tool. Everybody does better if they know the rules upfront.
365 — Junior Showmanship from Competing to Judging
Junior Showmanship from Competing to Judging
Marti Day and Sarah Congleton are a mother-daughter junior showmanship judging juggernaut. Sarah and her brother Tanner started showing in juniors in 2005. Marti was the support person and chauffer. Mother and daughter both judged the huge junior showmanship competition at Orlando before the AKC National championship.
The family traveled to dog shows regularly, putting 250,000 miles on the family Suburban’s odometer. Sarah and Tanner competed in 4-H, juniors and regular breed competition, eventually working for handlers and breeders.
“We were so fortunate to work with top notch breeders,” Marti said. “We had people who offered us dogs and helped the kids learn how to groom. Parents should never do work for the juniors.”
Marti said she was rarely worried about her children traveling with breeders and handlers. The siblings generally were together, Marti said, adding “the Dog show world, in terms of children, really look after each other in an incredible way.”
As a parent, Marti expressed pride for her children’s success.
“The sport has made them outspoken, compassionate, understanding, motivated, organized young adults,” Marti said.
Sarah observed that junior entry numbers are decreased in recent years and throughout the purebred dog fancy “more has to be done than just saying juniors are the future of the sport.”
Mentorship along the lines of “Jody’s Juniors” and building a “dogmanship” program are some of Sarah’s emphasis.
“It’s not just running around the ring in a Saint John’s suit, we need to teach basic animal husbandry,” Sarah added.
Marti and Sarah both emphasized safety in judging junior showmanship, as well as “who would I trusty MY dog to.”
“I like to see the juniors and their dog relax. Everybody on edge isn’t good for either one. And, don’t be a prima donna. I want to see the rapport between you and your dog,” Marti said.
364 – Healthy, Happy Travels to Westminster Kennel Club
Healthy, Happy Travels to Westminster Kennel Club
Dr. Marty Greer provides thorough and thoughtful advice for keeping your dog healthy and happy on the way and at the big show.
Preparing the Dog
- Enter the dog.
- Assure the entry has been accepted.
- Arrange travel.
- Have an appropriate travel bag or crate, depending on if the dog will travel in the cabin under your seat or in cargo, with or without you on the airplane.
- Do NOT try to pass the dog off as an “ESA” – Emotional Support Animal if this dog is not certified as such. There is current proposed legislation that will restrict the use of this term as it has been overused and misused by many travelers.
- A Certificate of Veterinary Inspection (CVI) is required for all animals crossing state lines. This applies whether you are driving or flying the dog to the destination. Most of the time, you will not be asked for this document. However, if you are without it, your travel plans may be interrupted. This must be issued by a veterinarian who is “Accredited” by USDA. Not all Veterinarians are accredited so be sure you have a veterinarian who can sign this paperwork.
- A current rabies certificate is also required for all dogs traveling.
- A “Letter of Acclimation” if the dog is flying in cargo. This will reflect the temperatures the dog has been acclimated to prior to travel. This is issued by your veterinarian.
- Microchip and identification collar with your current cell phone number.
- Anti-anxiety medication if indicated. Acepromazine and Benadryl/diphenhydramine are NOT anti-anxiety medications. Alprazolam, trazodone, or gabapentin may be suitable if indicated and prescribed by your veterinarian.
Preparing the Equipment
- Make a list of the least amount of equipment and supplies you can manage with. Consider shipping these ahead to the hotel.
- Arrange to rent equipment
- Travel bag, leash and collar. A quiet toy to keep your dog busy and avoid annoying fellow travelers.
- Travel crate, absorbent material, leash, collar, ID, small bag of food enough for one meal, bowls (the kind that flatten are easiest) and a toy to keep your dog busy.
Preparing you!
- Buy tickets for admission to Westminster.
- Make flight arrangements. Be sure you include the dog(s) on the reservation.
- Make hotel reservations. Be sure you include the dog(s) on the reservation.
363 — Reactive Dogs: Learn their Language
Reactive Dogs: Learn to Speak “Dog” for Better Outcome
Kristin Sandstede, Big Moose Dog Training, is back with some great conversation about “reactive dogs.” We narrow the topic down to reactive, non-aggressive dogs and learn to speak “dog” for some great solutions.
Dogs speak in body language, Sandstede reminds us. They use “distance increasing and distance decreasing body language.”
For example hard, sharp barks, growls and showing teeth are distance increasing signals. Dogs when they play bow and offer “circle wags” are telling their playmates to come closer. Drilling down on that behavior more, Sandstede observes that a “hip check is friendly, a shoulder check is not.”
Reactive dogs are often just plain scared, Sandstede said.
“Many dogs learn that the best defense is a good offense, Sandstede said. “The big reaction saves them from having to get into interaction that makes them scared.”
Lack of early socialization, negative experiences and a second fear stage at around 9 months, can all cause the problems the dog is experiencing, Sandstede said. “You can do all the right stuff in the 0-16 weeks timeframe and still have 2nd fear period. It’s a real thing and it happens.”
So, if this is happening to your dog, your first move is to avoid the “threshold” that causes the reaction.
Going forward
“Don’t get after the dog,” Sandstede said. “While we’re embarrassed and don’t want our dog to act that way, all (a correction successfully does) is stress out the dog, create more fear/anxiety. Scared dogs don’t know what to do. Give them things to do. If you take away a behavior you don’t like, you have to replace it with a better one. The more time focused on what the dog does right, also decreases his stress level.”
Traveling to NYC
Folks traveling to Westminster Kennel Club with reactive dogs need to consider the high traffic, lots of noise, lots of people as potential triggers to the dogs fears.
Counter-conditioning to solve the underlying issue takes time. So the next best option is to manage the dog’s anxiety. Cut down on their external stimulation when possible and utilize products such as CBD oil, melatonin or lavender oil to reduce anxiety.
362 — Joseph Vergnetti: the Art and Science of Dog Breeding
Joseph Vergnetti: the Art and Science of Dog Breeding
“Breeding is Like a Recipe, You Need All the Ingredients On Hand”
Host Laura Reeves and Joseph Vergnetti in Puyallup, Washington.
So says Joseph Vergnetti, master breeder at Dassin Poodles. Vergnetti talks about the presentation, line-breeding and outcrosses, and the differences in the varieties.
In partnership with Ellen Charles, Vergnetti has been voted Breeder of the Year twice by his peers and was selected Non-Sporting breeder of the year by the American Kennel Club. They have produced more than 300 champions across all varieties of poodles.
Starting Young
Starting with a toy poodle that he learned to trim by himself at 10 years old, Vergnetti has successfully bred Boxers, Great Danes and American Foxhounds as well. He apprenticed with professional handlers in his teens, including Ted Young Jr, then went to work for Wendell Sammet, Ale Kai poodles.
“Wendell was hardest worker in the world. Everything was very precise,” Vergnetti said.
It was during this late ‘60s, early ‘70s time frame, that the trimming and presentation style of poodles changed dramatically, Vergnetti said, with the “spray up” becoming more and more important.
“Today it is a little over-done,” Vergnetti said. “They are almost a caricature, way over the top. Hairspray and excessive presentation has taken over. In a way, I think poodles are a victim of their own beauty. There is a normal dog (construction) under all the hair. That’s very important.”
Differences in varieties
Miniature poodles are Vergnetti’s favorite, he said, adding that “Miniatures are smart. They’re the perfect size. They know what they like and what they don’t.” He noted that miniatures often have more work ethic than standards. They were originally truffle dogs and circus dogs. “They don’t take much (grief) from anybody.”
Breeding planning
When breeding dogs, you need to have all ingredients, like a recipe, Vergnetti opined. The Dassin program generally maintains seven or eight stud dogs and an average of 10 bitches… “It’s important to have the dogs you want in front of you,” he said.
The Dassin Farms facility features a four-story-tall barn for a kennel building, Vergnetti said, with 50-60 runs and 72 windows all around.
“We can see the dogs all day, every single day. We take hair off the puppies to see the bodies. You can see temperament. We evaluate them every day on their own,” Vergnetti said, which he adds is how they make decisions about which dogs to keep.
361 – Specialty vs All Breed Part 2: Identifying Solutions
Specialty vs All Breed Part 2: Identifying Solutions
Our experts are back to help us identify solutions to the dilemma of specialty versus all breed shows. Part one is available for listening here.
All breed shows offer a moderating influence on the extremes that can reign at specialty shows. They also enable judges and owners to see the quality of dogs presented at specialties.
“The ultimate learning tool for judges is to get your hands on good dogs.”
And, in a special opportunity, I had a listener contribute thoughts on this topic that I think are absolutely on point and applicable to this conversation. Welcome Tracy Dineley, Clandara Perm Reg, with her input.
“I just wanted to write to you after listening to your latest podcast as this topic has been on my mind for the last few years and I myself have spoken about it many times and have also written about it.
First let me give you my 411. I have been involved in purebred dogs since 1981 as a professional handler and breeder exhibitor. I have been breeding and showing Staffordshire Bull Terriers since 1984. I have bred more all-breed BIS dogs than any other breeder in Canada and more National Specialty winners in Canada than any other breeder. I have over 80 champions in Canada and the US.
It is my opinion that showing strictly or mostly at one or the other, specialties versus all breed shows is actually detrimental to any breed. It divides a breed, usually not for the better, in two directions. In some cases, it has divided breeds to the point that they almost end up looking like two different breeds.
All breed judges versus breed specialists have different priorities when judging. An all-round judge will judge the whole dog. They won’t focus on one thing. They take soundness and movement into the equation. They may even refresh themselves with the breed standard.
The breed specialist judge tends to focus on types or heads. They forgive movement flaws and sometimes forgive to the point that they will put up maybe a pretty or typey dog that is just plain unsound. They might even focus on things that are an issue in their own breeding program. It is not always the most balanced opinion.
In my breed, I have found that many breed specialists will interpret the breed standard to suit themselves. For instance, the breed standard calls for a level topline, but many breeders say that level doesn’t really mean level. I also find that many specialty winners cannot win at the all-breed shows at a high level. I think it’s usually because they are not sound enough. Just the same as some top-winning BIS winners who cannot win a Specialty. They are not typey enough.
In my opinion, we should all be striving to win under both judges. To have a dog that is correct and typey enough to win a specialty and sound structurally correct enough to win under all-rounders at all breed shows.
I think your speakers on the podcast were perfect for this topic. I think out of the three breeds, Staffy Bulls, Collies, and Bull Terriers, the Bull Terriers are the only breed that has it right. I believe you could take pretty much any specialty-winning Bull Terrier and do some serious winning at the all-breed shows even to BIS level.
I think the possibilities of creating extremes happen on both sides and therefore are detrimental to any breed. We need balance. We should always strive for the best to be somewhere in the middle of extremes but have the best of both worlds.
Thank you for your podcasts, I look forward to them every week!”